Interview with A Guy Called Gerald - Part 1

A. Guy. Called. Gerald. Simple, eh??

Well, not really.

He may be called Gerald, but he's certainly not just "A Guy." He's one of  the fathers of the UK Dance scene, a figure who is still remembered and  respected for his epic contributions in the 80's aswell as everything that he does today.

Gerald Simpson (for that is he) emerged with Scratchbeat Masters, a local  B-Boy Band, who later teamed up with the Hit Squad, who would later find  huge success as 808 State.

His real acclaim came as a result of seminal house record "Voodoo Ray", created under influence of, amongst other things, the earliest Detroit and  Chicago House and Techno. Soon after this rise in the ranks, and a major record deal was agreed with Sony/Columbia, but, unfortunately, it did not bear the fruit that it had the potential to do, with the music loving public seemingly not ready for what Gerald chose to set upon them.

His own label "28 Gun Bad Boy" was subsequently created as an outlet, and it saw drum & bass (prominent at the time) and house released in tandem. In 95' Geralds' album "Black Secret Technology" proved a smash in the Jungle community, and clearly showed Geralds natural affinity with music for dancing.

Later, in 1996 Gerald left the UK bound for New York, and vanished into the huge unfamiliar crowds. Some quiet years passed.......and in 2000 he released his LP "Essence" with !K7 in Germany. Most recently, Gerald has been performing regularly, notably at Londons' Split and Retrovert parties and Manchesters' Tribal events, aswell as across the world.

PAST

Wotcha Gerald, how the devil are you? Did you have a good Yule and New Year?
Yeh, I was celebrating the birth of Mithra who predates Jesus Christ by about two centuries. 

Just how was 2003 for you?
I spent the entire year working on computers and trying to perfect different ways of extracting audio and synching it up with the numerous sequences and bla bla bla technospeak, technospeak.

Looking forward to anything in 2004?
Yeh, the cloning of Jesus! I've set about creating a funding system and apparently for $200,000 and a few cells you can have a clone.... so I figured if I could get near enough to the shroud of Turin we might just bring the man back to save the world from perverted clergy. 

Seriously though, I'm looking forward to the re-release of my entire back catalogue and the automation of the shop page on my website and the initially slow drip feed of new material before I rain down new hybrid beatz and bass on your rass claart.

A little bird told us you where buzzing about Littledetroit.net, who did you hear about us and what do you think about what we are trying to do?
Greg Wilson told me about it. I think it's really good - very happy to contribute.

What where your early influences? You always had instruments around the house and you practically lived in A1, but what rocked your boat back then?
Anything with artificial sounds in it back then was so different. It's hard to put your finger on just one artist or even tune. I got into just sounds for a little while - like pre-sampler days - well, probably the only sampler at the time was the Fairlight but it was way out of my price range so I used to stick to imitating sounds with analogue machines - something I still enjoy doing today.

Did you ever go down The Twisted Wheel? Or swing by one of Greg Wilson's electro nights?
I was always at Greg Wilson's night at Legends on Wednesdays.  I was just a little bit underage but managed to get in.  I really miss those times coz people back then had nothing else but that.  So when I used to watch Zipper, Carl Lloyd and Godfrey and the whole load of Fusion/Jazz dancers rocking the floor at Legends the atmosphere was something I've never ever seen repeated.  People would come to Legends from Birmingham just for that night.  Anyone reading this from back in the day will remember Bulldog.  I remembering mentioning Bulldog to Greg Wilson when we met last year and he nearly jumped out of his seat.  His whole concept of me probably changed.  I was about 13 at the time. 

Back in the day I used to get mix tapes sent to me from mates in Manchester, on one of them are a couple of your tracks, Ruthless Rap Assassins, Massive Attack, Greg Wilson etc. real early stuff, about a month later dance music really took off. How does it feel to be part of something that brought about great change and inspired so many?
Kind of feels like I should be doing something to help the situation at the moment with dance music. Dance music / underground music has always been the base element within the music industry.  It's where marketing people look for their ideas and where more mainstream artists go to get their credibility.  Because when you cut to the bone of it it's honest and very expressive so it's easy pickings for those who are good in the art of exploitation.  But because it's so expressive, by the time they've bottled it or tried to bottle it, it's morphed into something else.  Even now with it's many genres there are true artists still cooking away.  I think once the smoke's cleared you are going to have some really interesting music and sounds.

Do you get fed up with people banging on about Voodoo Ray and do you feel that the track has over shadowed your other work?
In 1989 and 1990 I was totally pissed off with it, sick to death of it, really fed up.  But by 1999 I kind of got over that.  Now when I'm playing out if anyone asks me to play Voodoo Ray I switch the laptop on and give them a 45 minute rendition or however long it takes for them to get really pissed off.  I suppose you've got to get your enjoyment somehow....

Is it also the case that you made very little money from Voodoo Ray, even though it still sells well today? Didn't the geezer looking after the pressing etc. just disappear?
I didn't make anything from it at all whatsoever at the time.  He did but not before I sorted out all the paperwork.  I started to look into music law myself because I couldn't find any legal people that could help me either and found there's many different ways to exploit a record. 

Lets get rid of a few myths about the track while we're here. Did you really sell the rights to the track so you could buy a drum machine? Was the track really called Voodoo Rage but you ran out of sample time? Was the vocal sample by Lisa May or was it taken from a old school sample library or Peter Cook record?
Like the religion of Christianity, all big myths.

There was never any drum machine, never any rights sold.  I licensed it to a record company who didn't pay me and I've always retained the rights.  What you should be asking is what happened to the guy who ran the record company... can't say anymore than that. ;-) 

It was going to be Voodoo Radio.  After reading about the Voodoo Rage myth I decided to do a mellow drum n bass track called Voodoo Rage. It was released through Juice Box.

The actual female vocal was a girl that lived on my estate.  Her name's Nicola.  When I was working on the Fontana/Mercury version of Voodoo Ray I got hold of Nicola to redo the vocal but she fell out with my business partner at the time and she fucked off back to Manchester. I took this as a bad omen, my business partner pursued the project and hired a session singer called Lisa May. Lisa May sung on The Curse Of Voodoo Ray.  I begrudgingly worked on The Curse Of Voodoo Ray a few months before I went to live in New York.  By the time I got back there was all these stories about Lisa May.  The one you just told me is a new one on me.  I do have an old school sample library which at sometime this year I'm going to put online. 

When that tune went off at the Hac tho, man - was that a magic moment in the early days, weren't you still working at Maccy D's at the time? How the hell did that feel?
As I said, Legends was a magic moment. 'Hacienda was just full of fucking students,'  Paul Calf, circa 1992. 

Just how much where you involved with 808 State's early material and are you still speaking to them? [peel sessions etc]
I was involved with 808 State up until 1989.  We did Newbuild, Massage-A-Rama, a few other bits and pieces but once I'd done 4 or 5 releases with them and I was still in a squat, working in McDonalds I thought they were taking the piss a little bit as I hadn't received any money from them.  That was just a side project so I decided to concentrate on my own stuff as Voodoo Ray started to kick off. 

What was really funny was going into Eastern Block Records, where Martin worked, and looking at the confused look on his face.  I remember him reading some article about me in a magazine and not knowing it was me.  I think he must have sold about 500 copies of Voodoo Ray before he figured it out.  As soon as he figured it out they pulled Newbuild off the shelves and put a sticker on it which said 'including A Guy Called Gerald'.  If anyone's got a sticker of Newbuild you'll see it.  I find it hilarious now knowing that after that he conveniently 'forgot' to credit me on Pacific State.

Why were you not credited on Pacific State 808, wasn't it your tune? And didn't you fight a lengthy court battle to get a writing credit?
Originally I was credited when Pacific State first came out on Creed Records but by the time they'd signed the deal with ZTT they thought it was more appropriate to keep my name off the record because my name would have to be on the recording contract too.  It would have meant an advance, which meant less for them.  What do you think?  I recorded Pacific State with Graham and Martin under the guise of a Peel Session.  That was the only way they could get me back in the studio because we'd had arguments before that over payments due from Newbuild.  So as far as I was concerned going back into the studio with them was out of the question unless someone was going to pay me something. Knowing Peel Sessions I realised that if I did a Peel Session with them I would be paid by the BBC and not dodgy Martin.  But again it was just a ruse.  That's what really pissed me off the most.  I did have to go through the court system to get credited - the legal people, managers and all sorts got their pound of flesh as you say in the music industry.   

Related to the last question, is the rumour that "Specific Hate" on FX was your response/musical statement to what happened with the 808 crew? Rumour also has it that you still respect the guys in 808 and talk highly about their work (Did you hear the last album Gerald?), that must have been one hell of a cross to cast off fella, how the fuck did you deal with that?
Yeh, I've always respected Andy and Darren from when they were the Spinmasters.  We used to DJ battle at the Sally Army in Ancoats. I'll never forget the time they were spinning, I think they had about 7 sets of turntables or something like that and they were trying to do like this Knights of the Sound Table / itchybone scratch / type vibe. I turned up with the Scratchbeat Masters (the 3 of us - Dave Caine, Nicky Lockett and me) which was my crew at the time and a set of home-made speakers, 2 turntables and a drum machine (TR Roland 808)...... no one had ever used the drum machine in a DJ battle before.  We tore the roof off! LOL But after that we became great friends.  I remember going round to Andy's house and in his DJ room he had a wall of fame - all these posters of LL Cool J and it was great.... we go back a long, long way.  See, I never forget. I don't cast off crosses, I just tally up. I didn't hear the last LP.   

Manchester really did go tit's up, guns, violence, thieving, meatheads running the clubs and running the drugs, I used to leave my car open it got broke into that much - what went wrong Gerald?
It all got too big too fast for them.  I remember queuing up outside the Hacienda.  Didn't have to really but always did just to check out the kind of people that were going.  As you might have guessed by earlier on in the interview, I've been clubbing a long time.  I know the kind of people that go out to dance to have a good time, the kind of people that go out to show off their new trainers, the king of people that go out to sell drugs and so on etc etc.  Most people are going out for a sense of community.  I would say that over the years Hacienda just dried up.  It was too much and by 94 it had totally lost it.  I think there were gangs from Solford running the club - Tony Wilson must have shit himself and let them run the club. Every club in the centre of Manchester was being ran by either Solford, Cheetham Hill or one of the Moss Side gangs.  I stopped going there because the students all got the fear and they got off. So for me the interest in the Hacienda was gone.  

And the Hac, the myths are interesting but I remember being there loads and it mostly being empty, I also remember seeing The Smiths there, packed to the gills and absolutely no one clapped - totally bizarre, so is Tony right - should you tell "The Legend" or the truth?
I seen Adonis, Chip-E, Marshall Jefferson, the whole DJ International family there, they were all there on stage at the same time.  I think there must have been about 40 of us at the Hacienda to see it.  There was an all-dayer that day so everyone was out of town but it was great.  They probably felt how Jimmy Hendrix felt playing to the stayers after most of the 2 mill people got off at Woodstock but then afterwards everyone saying I was there watching him change the face of rock n roll.  There is alot of bullshit surrounding it I agree though.  You should tell the truth.

Do you think drugs ruined the scene?
Drugs and gangsters.

What with us asking about the early dance scene and events in your distant past, do you feel that you are viewed as a throwback or still viewed as relevant to the current (i.e. post 1990) electronic music scene and do you care what the media think about you?
I always thought of myself as an outsider to the then music scene.  I don't think any different now. 

Wouldn't it have been a bitch if you were named Ronald? What would you have called yourself if that had been the case?
I think Jesus Christ is a bitch of a name.

Loads of DJ's would love to get their wanking spanners on some of the older stuff on vinyl, ever thought of releasing some limited runs?
Funny you should say that.  They'll be some coming out this year.

What with all the shit that's happened to you, you've always kept your integrity intact, just how hard was it fella?
Easy.  You just stay outside of all the rubbish.

Gerald, did anything come of your chat with Derrick May at the Cosmic Twins bash in London? Any plans for a collaboration?
It's always nice to have a chat with Derrick.  I suppose at some point before I die it would be nice to do something with him.  We'll both be playing at the Split party at Turnmills Feb 6th.  I'll have a chat with him then.  My first demo I sent to Transmaat was in late 1986.  He doesn't produce anything at the moment I don't think.  I remember getting him in my studio in 92.  I had something on the desk and he did a little mix for me.  He didn't know I was recording at the time so it's not something I could release.

Derrick's a great instigator isn't he...
Didn't Derrick get down with you at the Blue Note in the mid-nineties(96-ish?)... Could be mistaken, but I'm sure it was some kind of Gerald-orientated live collaboration, care to expand? Don't know where you heard that.... nah.

What made you move over from techno/house to drum and bass? Was it the pure misery of the way you'd been treated by both?
It wasn't a conscious decision.  I got totally wrapped up in breaks when I was doing Speciphic Hate.  I just pursued that experiment but if you look at where I come from, if you look at the time line in British dance music there was no separation between genres when it came to technical differences within a track.  I mean now, apparently, just the change of a bpm is a different genre.  And I still don't see any differences and will continue to make genre-LESS music.  Does anyone remember 2 step and speed garage - what was all that about?  That was like speed genre!  Just as I left to go to New York I started to hear about 2 step and speed garage and by the time I got back it was all over.  Thank fuck for that!  I really love all sounds electronic hence Emotions Electric. 

I understand on some levels why genres and categories are necessary in a marketing sense but it doesn't encourage people to be experimental when they create music and I think that's a shame.  I remember thinking back in the late 80's that the way the DJ/Producer scene was going I was predicting that every DJ would have his own studio, his own sound so the music scene would be a lot more colourful but it seems something's gone wrong along the way coz that is just a memory.  I mean we have more than the technology to do that.  You don't even have to worry too much about distribution - back then, the biggest worry was trying to make your sound not sound like a demo with all the tape hiss.

The famous five from Detroit have always spoken highly about you because you invented your own sound, something many of the shirter [part-time]techno producers failed to do, is that some that you are conscious of?
Yeh.  Everyone should have their own sound.

Do you think the USA will ever recognise what those guys started and continue to do?
First a question:  Didn't Moby start techno and then Paul Oakenfold went over, had a meeting with Moby and then brought it over to England?  That's what I heard..... 

I remember going to Detroit once and it was one of them really rare days when nearly everyone was in town cause usually you go there and someone's in Germany somewhere, somebody's in Toronto and someone's in the North Pole so no one is ever around but this time everyone seemed to be in town.  We all went out and had a meal at some diner across the road from the place where Whodini died I think (or did his last trick!!! LOL) It was really surreal thinking that if this meeting was in Germany or probably anywhere else on the planet there would have been a load of kids with their noses pressed up against the windows with their CDs and pens.  I just smiled to myself and thought this is Detroit.

Of course they will but probably only when they are dead.  That's how the music industry works.  It's impossible for them to be recognised whilst they are still alive.   E.g. check out the jazz greats.  When most of them were alive and kicking they had to enter their gigs through the back entrance at venues in America.  At the same time, in Europe, they were treated like kings.  Companies like the Detroit company Ford were dead against Jazz and started classes to keep middle American teenage kids away from that 'heathen music'.  They started classical music classes in the mid 30's.  But by the mid 60's that same company, Ford, used Jazz in a Mustang TV commercial - by this time Jazz was hip.

The way it works is that as a true artist you're never gonna get your worth.  Some fortunate artists manage to get it but even now you would think with record companies and others starting online download services that the artist would be one of the first to benefit or would at least have a larger or equal percentage to the record label but most don't. Especially considering the record label has very few overheads doing this. 
Check out these sites:
http://www.downhillbattle.org/itunes/
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/index.html

This is the truth and until the artist is sorted out properly the recognition will stay with the mainstream and those who hold the media power in the market.  When the artist is not around anymore that's when the publishers and record companies cash in.

If someone did a movie like 8 Miles about a techno producer from Detroit it might just kick off a little bit but because of the colour of their skins you might have to spice it up  so that it would fit in with the American cliche of black people in America.   Most people in America are not going to want to watch an educated black guy who's not in a ghetto creating a storm around the rest of the world.  It doesn't work like that over there unfortunately. 

Didn't Shake once swing by your studio?
Yeh. 

Did you make any tunes or just chat?
We just chatted I think.    

Is it really true that when Muzik called you up to ask you about Roni Size winning the Mercury Prize, that you didn't know what it was? (If so, respect!)
That's true.

Is there a load of 94-96 period Guy Called Gerald ragga jungle that's never come out or -- yikes! -- came out under other names that no-one's heard of?
Loads of it that didn't come out but at some point I have to take them off DAT, put em in the computer, clean em up a bit.

Were you making hardcore and d'n'b while making mid-nineties techno? If so was it hard to stay focused? For that matter, are you still making house / techno alongside the d'n'b?
I'm making dnb and techno and the other stuff I find really interesting is the stuff that falls in-between.

Black Secret Technology is now seen as something of a forgotten classic -- did you feel like it was taken seriously at the time?
Not really. I don't know, you'd have to define what seriously means. Taken seriously by who? If you mean the press I don't think they take anything seriously unless it fits in with their version of what's going on. I think music should be promoted as a non-competitive art form. The whole chart thing creates competition which eats away at creativity.  This encourages some people to try to make music that sounds like somebody else's success, trying to imitate tracks in the charts and I find that really wierd. 

Jungle and to a lesser extend d'n'b have a big inheritance from reggae -- not just the samples, but also the attitude, the dedication to ganja, the MCing over records, the appropriation of the language -- but AGCG records aren't so much like that. how much of a reggae influence do you have?
I grew up in a sound system lifestyle. I used to build my own speaker boxes and my first education in electronic music was fixing sound system style amplifiers.  But I always wanted to do something different. As soon as you follow something you open yourself up to comparison.

The jungle / d'n'b scene has been renowned for its "tightness", the way that it has protected itself by forming a clique that isn't easily opened up by outsiders... have you felt welcomed by the players on the scene?
I felt very welcomed but somehow feel I got back a long, long way before cliques were formed. But I appreciate them are trying to protect that genre of music coz I feel it's easy for the hype machine to manipulate a scene for gain and then cast it aside.

The thread from techno to hardcore to D'n'b went on to UKGarage -- 2 step beats slowed down to 140bpm and then twisted up, mixing in elements of soul, hip hop, dancehall, but often with this very glossy, very techno-like sound, a lot like AGCG d'n'b records. On the face of it, you might think that you would have been tempted to go this route too -- taking your d'n'b sound and morphing it back to techno tempo again, but with a different swing... Were you? Did you? Are there AGCG UKG dubs out there that no-one knows about? Did the fact that it was SO dominated by London put you off?
I actually didn't know it was going on, I was in America at the time but do you think it's too late to jump on?....Oops, I guess I missed that one!

Interview With A Guy Called Gerald Part 2